What does Google, eBay, Whatsapp and Instagram have in common? They were all started by immigrants.
And so was Confianz Global by Anoop Menon.
We all love these type of inspiring stories so keep reading
Confianz Global is a software solutions company that deals with ERP implementation and one of the top three partners for Odoo ERP in North America, they also develop custom applications and products in Blockchain, machine learning etc for start-ups.
The founder, Anoop Menon is an Indian American entrepreneur in the software industry who overcame the challenges that most immigrants face i.e. low capital, growth challenges and regulations. He has succeeded in the software industry and achieved the American dream.
Anoop got a couple of friends and began a start-up in a garage.
In 15 days they broke even and the rest, as they say, is history.
Anoop talks about the adjustments he and his team have had to make due to the COVID-19 pandemic.
They’re also being of service by helping their local county sheriff with a free App to help the police with the Coronavirus situation.
In this interview we cover :
How can an immigrant make it as an entrepreneur in the United States?
How to identify opportunities in the software space ? Get to know Anoop’s process.
How to cover your bases when starting a software company.
How to approach marketing in the software space and keep the pipeline flowing.
What strategy is Confianz Global using during these times? How are they managing not to lay off their employees?
Helpful resources
1) For more live interviews and insights
2) If you’re marketing doesn’t make money…
Interview transcript
Reade (00:00):
Three two, one. Thanks so much for joining me guys. Welcome to the growth secrets interview series. I'm here with a new men on and I'm going to mess his name up the entire time, but he's a nice guy. So he's gonna forgive me. He is with a convience really interesting company. He's got a really great. He and I have already had a sub conversation here. He's, I told you guys in the last interview I did. I'm about to just shave my head. It's driving me crazy. He's braver than me. You already did it, which tells you that that this is just going to be a really fun conversation.
Anoop (00:34):
We've already had a good chat before this, so
Reade (00:38):
No, thank you so much for joining me.
Anoop (00:40):
Thank you. For sure.
Reade (00:42):
Awesome. Well, why don't you tell us a little bit about your own background first. I'm always, I'm always interested to hear about the, the business leader who's making it all happens. So tell me about yourself. What, what's brought you to today?
Anoop (00:56):
Okay, great. So I'm originally from India that you were very well understand that my accent. So I grew up in India. I started, I have, I've always loved like electronic devices growing up. I always loved to, you know, unscrew things and see what's happening inside. Always active with any kind of projects that involve building stuff. So early in my life I was really interested with all these things. Then the computers happen. Of course, that got me super attractor. So while my friends were actually playing video games, I was more interested on things like, okay, how can I build something? Right? So after, after my high school, I did a, I made a decision that I'll actually do engineering and I was planning to come to the U S to do my undergrad degree in computer science. So I took a break while all my friends went to college after high school, I took a break for a year and started preparing for my sat and I had to do TOEFL.
Anoop (01:58):
That's test of English as a foreign language because I do not come from a country where the primary language is English. So I decently score everything. And you know, I was selected to attend, attend Buffalo's sunny Buffalo in New York and I applied for a student visa that was like a couple of months after nine 11 happened and they never actually let me in. Right. So my mom did not like the fact that, okay, you're going to try the gain lose another year. You know, even the moms can be a little bit crazy when it comes to children because they give a lot of importance to education at the same time. I'm a single child and she, she actually raised me up as a single mom, so she was never going to leave me alone. So long story short, I did my engineering in India and then I worked for a New Jersey based telecom product company.
Anoop (02:55):
I, I, yeah, I've worked for them for like one and a half years. What are the back of my head? I always had this thing that I need to start my own business. Right. And I always love open source technologies. I always love like anything to do with the Linux. That was my thing, kind of the guy who hate Microsoft, but everything that was me. Right? So [inaudible] yeah, it was a really good job. They had a facility in Bangalore in India. I love the job. I was learning a lot of new things, like something I could learn in 10 years. They actually made me learn in like two months. Right. the CTO and my CEO, they were all really nice people, but they were they want to make sure that I learn things faster. So I never thought that I wasn't, I would ever leave that job.
Anoop (03:46):
I thought like, okay, this is good. The pay money is good. You know, like Monday to Friday work car Friday and Saturday and Sunday, you know, like you can drink all the beer, you won't hang out with your friends. It's all good, happy life. Then a major turning point happened in the business where US-based company, New Jersey, they were bought by another company in Atlanta and they did not need me there. Right. And of course they actually presented that in a really nice way that, Hey, we do not need a developer like you in India, so it's right time for you to start looking for a job. They gave me a really good severance too, so I was not worried about it. And I was thinking like, okay, do I need to go work for somebody else because I didn't have any student debt or anything because education is in these a lot cheaper compared to going to a college in the U S so long story short, I'm like, okay, let's let me start my own business.
Anoop (04:45):
Right. And we came up with a name started looking at like small projects from a website called [inaudible] rent a quarter.com. It's like the Lance or Thumbtack or Upwork kind of thing. I had some specific skillsets, so we actually land on their project, like deplete. So I took a risk, like I took all the money I had, I took all the money either that I could get my mom from my mom. So we actually started the garage and I hired two or three of my really close friends and told them like, there's enough money to pay for the rent. They pay everyone for six months and the internet and keep the [inaudible] lights on, right? [inaudible] Things are not good. By the end of the third month, I'm going to look for a job, another job. And you'll do the same thing. Funny thing is in 15 days we broke even because we were all taking small salary.
Anoop (05:38):
Right? So that's where it started. Then I started traveling a lot all across the globe. You name it, Australia, Dubai, Landon, you S, you know, like everywhere. And at some point I understood like I need to sell down a little bit. Like in between I got and I had a small kid. I started missing our, because I'm always traveling. So like three fourth of a year I will be outside India. And then when I go back home, in fact, this happened when I've been back home. My daughter did not knew who it was. Right? And that was the turning point. I've made a decision like I need to pick one country, a one state in one city and just focus on there and bring my mood. My family also there. I don't even think I chose the United States, North Carolina and I chose this small town called Belmont that's like 15 minutes outside Charlotte Charlotte Douglas airport.
Anoop (06:37):
Like, it's like 15 minutes away from Charlotte airport. It's funny because I love the small town feel. I ask myself like where I want to raise my kids. I was not comfortable raising my kids in a big city like Manhattan. Like I, I'm the kind of guy, you know, likes to hang out with my kids and I like barbecue, you know, ended up here, you know, far right. There's so much about that story that I love. Right. You, you actually started the business out of a garage, is that what you said? Yes sir. So I thought that was like an urban legend that that, that, you know, bill Gates and Steve jobs started out in my garage and no one actually did it. So I love, that. Makes me so happy to hear that that really happens and I love that. You know, you just had that very Frank conversation was like, Hey guys, we have to make this thing work or we're out of a job, you know, or we got to go figure something else out.
Anoop (07:36):
Which is actually a very, you know, we, we tend to think that entrepreneurs are these big risk takers and yes you did. You did take a risk. But like I tend to think it's more calculated in that I think you may even, you can, you can come back on this if you want, if I'm wrong in terms of your mindset, but it's like, look, we got enough money to last us this long and so we're going to, we're going to do the following things and if it works at after this time, we'll keep going. If not, we'll figure something else out. I think that is a key, key signifier of a true entrepreneur of a, we're either going to figure this out or we'll figure something else out. Right. That other way to do it. I agree. And to two reasons for that. Why don't I always tell my team members I agree should have a, a fail fast kind of a mythology.
Anoop (08:28):
Like if you have a product or a service that is not actually good for the market, no matter how hard you push. And I started going to work. And the second reason I told that to the initial team who are still there on the company we started, right? We started in 2008, right? That was right in the middle of the recession. So I knew like things were not going to be easy. We all had the mindset, okay, they got the fire in our bellies and we will give the privates. And again, at the same time, I do not want the, these people trust me, right? This three or four people, they were working for other companies and you know, they quit their job for the start of the come work for me. So I wanted to make sure that I do not actually put them in trouble. They have their families and dependents. So that six months was a good plan. We didn't fail, thank God, but I made a lot of mistake in the last 10 years. I, it's always been learning and moving on.
Reade (09:27):
I mean, that's, that's another key signifier, right, is that everybody fails in some way. Like every body makes poor decisions. But it's like, and I saw a really great graphic, I don't normally care for this kind of thing, but it was on Instagram and it was like, it shows one guy, the one little stick figure and his, he's surrounded by a bunch of blocks that say fail or failure on it, right? And he's just looking depressingly at these blocks and it shows another picture of a stick figure and he's stacked the blocks like stairsteps. Right? And he's walking up the steps. And again, normally I think those, those are kind of cheesy, but I really like that visualization. I, I think that they're in a, and I also would, would carry this forward and say, this is why entrepreneurs who are successful are rewarded exponentially more than people that don't take those risks and learn from that failure because they've, they've, they've gotten more bruises
Anoop (10:39):
And more scars,
Reade (10:40):
But they've, they've stacked those on top of each other and it's actually made them better. So a lot of entrepreneurs that I talk to, they say, yeah, I've made a ton of mistakes in the last several years or the lifetime of this business and I wouldn't be where I am today without making all those mistakes.
Anoop (10:58):
I agree. I agree.
Reade (11:00):
So I love that. So let's then let's segue a little bit. So, so what does the business actually do?
Anoop (11:07):
Okay, so confidence global, we are a software solutions business. So our core areas include ERP implementation. We are the top three best partner for a ERP system called [inaudible] for North America. Then we also do like custom application development, mobile applications for iPhone, iPad, Android tablets or phones and companies like startups to small and medium businesses to large corporations. If they need like a product development using any innovative technology like web or blockchain or machine learning, we have the capability to do that. That's what we do on a day to day basis.
Reade (11:56):
Sorry, I was on mute. Okay. yeah, I, I don't know that space as well as I would like to. But here's what I like about that and here's what I know about that. I'm willing to bet you chose that niche for a reason beyond the fact that you just had a particular passion for ERP technology and, and how to integrate with them. So I'm more interested in knowing how you identified that need in the marketplace and what made you say, this is where we need to focus. Because I would assume with your developmental scare, your developer skills, you probably could have gone into any space you wanted to. Is that fair to say?
Anoop (12:48):
It is, yeah. That's a good question. I, it's fair to say that. So like I said, initially this company is built on open source technology, right? Like we were never into Microsoft or those proprietary software solution, right? So we gather a good market domination with building all these applications for our customers, right? And we build a good customer base. Now we started asking these customers like what are their pain points? Right? So we are on the ERP, come into picture is think about a typical American company, right? It's a capitalism nation and small and medium business contribute more to the GDP than the bigger corporation. That's one thing that America is different from the entire world, right? So when somebody starting out as a business, whatever they do, whether they are, they are an HVSE business or they are, they are into a restaurant or you know, anything that they, that they do.
Anoop (13:53):
So the first thing they will do is they'll incorporate the business, right? And that actually goes through a CPA or an attorney and the CPA will tell him or her like, Hey, you didn't get books to run your accounting and finance. So they actually go in and purchase good books to run the accounting and finance. Now, the most important thing for any company, especially a B2B business, is sales, right? Without that, they do not exist. So they bring in their first sales guy and he will say like, Hey, we need a CRM solution so I'm, I'm an expert on Salesforce or Soho or some other system. Now they actually add like that system for them to manage, which is their customer relationship management right now based on the industry, whether they are manufacturing or retail or e-commerce, you know they bring in like different solutions, like something for the inventory management, something else for managing bottlers, something else for their marketing too.
Anoop (14:51):
At some point they grow fast. They understand like they have like 14 to 15 different disconnected systems or they are like in, they cannot actually talk to each other or they are not well integrated on a day to day basis. Right. That's where they look at like, okay, I need one software to completely run my business. Right? That should be the operating system for my company. Okay. That's where the ERP started, stands for. Enterprise resource planning that come into the picture. And there are the big names in the industry like SAP or NetSuite or Microsoft dynamics. But for the small and medium businesses, they cannot actually spend like a million dollars in licenses for a year because the license itself go into the six [inaudible]. Right. And for these companies, small and medium companies that we support, technology is an enabler for them, but they cannot actually invest all their money into technology because they are not a technology company.
Anoop (15:51):
Right. So long story short, we were looking at like what we can bring as a solution for them. And I've been researching a lot and found this company called open ERP. They are from a bell, Brussels, Belgium. So we we learned about that software. So Fabion who is the CEO of the company, he started this project for this open source project from his garage to help his dad because he couldn't actually find a good software to run his dad's business. So I really like Fabien's logic. I'm like, okay, this looks cool. So I learned the system and I, I want to see whether I can sell it to somebody or not. Right? So I learned the system and they're more to a customer in middle East. Like they were so interested to buy, but we had to back out of that sale in the first place because they did not have really good internet connection, their warehouses.
Anoop (16:45):
And this is a web based software and we are talking about almost 10 years ago, you know, like intellectually is not that common in every place in middle East because they don't have the, we didn't have the file five G or four G or three [inaudible] back then. Right. So we had to pull out at that, but then I understood like, okay cool, this is a good software that can sell in the U S because you'll see some more advanced. Right. So I picked one of my developers and I told, asked him like, I'm going to give you a challenge. Why don't you learn everything about this, this will be your thing. Right? So we hired like six or seven people and the took like a year. Do they learn the system cutely they were ready to sell. I did not sell to anybody. So we took our niece.
Anoop (17:30):
So we spent like a year. You want enough you just to make sure how our basics, right. Like we don't want to be in front of, in front of a customer where when they ask something, Oh, we don't know what it does. That'd be bad because ERP is, are complex big software. Right? So one and half years later we started selling and then we partnered with opening an RFP. Then they changed the rebranded to [inaudible]. They started heavily investing in the U S their headquarters is in San Francisco then. Yeah, the growth was awesome. I love it. And long story short, today, it's one of the largest teams that we have.
Reade (18:09):
That's really great. And I, I, so you found basically a hole in the market. You found a technology that wasn't being exploited as well as it could have been under different circumstances. And you took advantage of those two and you made you're, you made a successful business out of it or at least a department of your business out of it.
Anoop (18:34):
I agree.
Reade (18:35):
So I think, I think that's really fantastic and that's what I want. That's what I like to talk about here is like there's nothing obvious in that that that was a, that was a very calculated move that was a move that was based on data and information. And then you executed on it. That's another component that we talk about a lot when it comes to leading a business. And it's not so much in ideas, but it's in execution, right? Everyone gets glorified or we glorify these businesses who had this great idea without knowing that most of them are actually not unique ideas. They're really either better versions of another idea or better executed versions of a similar idea. So that stuff I like to, I like to see, well, let's let's shift a little bit then, and this is the growth secrets interview series, Facebook groups where all this begins. I'm always curious to know what are you doing? And how are you getting new customers, right? Tell what is your, you can go high level if you want, but what's your marketing look like? How does that feed into sales and how are you converting new customers?
Anoop (19:50):
Good question. I think the start of this conversation when we were talking, you looked at my website and told me that the vet side looks good. So I believe that website is, he's your first salesperson, so it has to look cool. And yeah, there's, there's a saying that the cobbler's kids never had sorry, the cobbler's kids never have their own shoes. So it's always difficult for my team to, you know, spend time on our own website, but I'm always being on top of them. Like, okay, we need to have the latest technology, you know, like we need to be cold, right? The case, this is the thing, if you want to build a website and coming to my company, what would be the first thing you'll be looking at my website and see like how it is doing. So the website actually does a really good job for us.
Anoop (20:39):
We have a marketing team. We have two to three people who are really good on search engine optimization. So if you search for like relevant keywords, that's for our business. We are on the first page of Google so that people will click on it, come to us and we have a sales team in the U S who will actually take it based on what the request is. If it's for mobile app development, it goes to Jason. If it's a [inaudible] or the ARP, it goes to Sean. A couple of things goes, it goes to Brad's. A couple of things comes to me right to, we also do like certain marketing on Google ads. We do do that from time to time depending on, you know, what time of the year and if we, if our sales pipeline is a little lo, you know, we actually run ads on Google.
Anoop (21:28):
I would say the best customers are always, these are references or referrals from our existing customers. That actually helps a lot. Then I'm actually part of a group called vis days international, which is a hinder CEO disciplinary advisory disciplinary group. I've been with the state for five years now, so I never tried to sell anything to anybody in my West page group. Because that's within their bylaws that you're not there to sell anything. You're there to learn about your business where we have a great speaker for half a day and the next half a day we have like issue processing. Right? The cool thing is since I'm the technology guy building cool things, right? Most of them, they reach out to me. Some of them, they need a simple websites. Some of them need help with SEO is we actually made that as a service as sassful because we are really good people who can help our prospecting customers to, you know, like sign a deal with us and we do the SEO for them. The more they grow, the more actual they invest back on building a cool app to rely on their customer. Things like that. Repeat business is a lot, you know, I love now as a service company, I love having repeat customers. Especially those, we have a monthly revenue. That's what my CFO allows to those customers.
Anoop (22:56):
We sponsoring events. For example, we were as fund protect this wrapped with in California last year, you know, take this drug that's one of the artist ID show ID show in the U S so last last year we were there. Then there was another [inaudible] which was in San Francisco. We were a sponsor for the [inaudible]. Then we do like a different songs along with ODU. We actually do like different cities. Last year we did like five different cities. This year we were supposed to do the first, the first one in Charlotte, but we announced the date and then we canceled the date because of everything going with the [inaudible]. So that brings me to the last kind of segue. So, first of all, I, that you
Reade (23:45):
Guys are clearly taking a data based approach or at least an analytical approach to your marketing because as I hear you say, you know, when the pipeline gets dry or or, or starts to dry up, you know how to strategically inject some ad budget into filling that back up, which is, which is what I like to hear. A lot of people will, will ask me, should we do advertising or should we do organic? And I normally tell them yes, right? Like do them both in proper balance and make sure that you're doing so strategically. So I love hearing that, that, that really that, that I'm pleased to hear that. The, the other thing you talk about obviously is that there was a, you had an in-person marketing and sales component that was destroyed for lack of a better way of putting it by coronavirus. So let's talk about that. A new hope. I mean, it's impossible to ignore the elephant in the room. Everybody has been affected by this. How has your business been affected? How are you guys adjusting
Anoop (24:55):
Post pandemic? So initially I was really worried, right? Because, Mmm. The first two weeks we didn't see like much of a change. But you have to understand with our ERP business, that side of the business most of our customers are manufacturers, retailers, wholesalers, and even eCommerce companies, right? So once they started having a problem where some of those customers, they, they ship a lot of items to North County, Northern California or New York. So once these States or cities having problems, then they do not want to manufacture more because they cannot actually send all these things in. So definitely many of them reached back to us and told us like can we post the it development for, for a month? Right. Can we do that? And we are, we have customers who are, you know, building softwares or products for the hospitality industry and the airline industry, which is completely shattered right now.
Anoop (26:06):
So definitely I had that fear. Mmm. But I did see an opportunity as well there. People started reaching out to us. The phone started ringing where those companies or businesses do, doesn't have the ERP solution or they are not used to working from home. No. Now they're thinking like, I need a mobile app to communicate well with my customers or my internally. So we started getting like projects, inquiries like that. So I could really see that there'll be a paradigm shift where exist in customers who have everything on it. They might, I'd actually post and take a break. But again, these customers are not going anywhere. Most of them, you know, they will call me and ask me or one of the core managers like, Hey, I know that you're going to take your post on this project, so for a month, for a month, but I want to make sure that those developers working on my project, I need it.
Anoop (27:04):
Then we actually bounced back because we will be moving faster once that bell curve is flattened and we already do grow back. Right. So we told them like, we will try our level best to do that. You know, I cannot promise because one of the things with country is we do not deal with external consultants or any 10 99, anybody like that. Everybody is salaried on my payroll. So if a customer actually put a hold on a project for a month, I cannot have the resource sitting there doing nothing. Right? So so we made some static changes and I, I had a call with all my salespeople. I told them like, I'm not going to be worried about any of your sales targets on the doc. Like the dollar figures. Do not try to pick up the phone and call anybody or email anybody or any communication bill.
Anoop (27:59):
Do not try to sell anything to anybody. Somebody reaches out to you. Yes, you can actually entertain them. Otherwise, if you're reaching out to somebody you were actually talking to before this hello [inaudible] starter, you can ask them like how they are staying, how things are was family, but do not try to push a proposal to anybody because we did not want to be that. That company, first of all, people bill [inaudible] you for your actions right when you come back. And I told it straight and made sure that the entire company understands that our brand should not be associated with some ambulance days are kind of a [inaudible] sales methodology. I do not want to hear that. Right? Even if sales is down in our, like if things go completely crazy, top management will take half the salary and people will actually balance. But we are not going to the customers and you know, we are there any problems for you now?
Anoop (28:58):
Now going back to the other question. Yes. Meeting people. I'm an extrovert person. I love to meet people, right? And these events are the events that we do. It's really good because I love them for the fact that it's all about educating your [inaudible] customers. We are never trying to sell anything to them. We show them like we showed them off the product or you know, we like every city that the had those older road shows last year. We flied in a customer from another city. So they will actually talk about their experience working with confidence. Right? So those events are nice because there's a personal field, right? Because at the end of the day although they say businesses between two different companies, you will buy something only from me. Right. Only. Only if you trust me, you believe that there's a pause. There's a connection between me and you at a personal level.
Anoop (29:58):
Okay. I can trust. I knew I can trust a new stream. I can trust confidence. Otherwise you're not spending $100 or $100,000 with me. Right? Like that's the truth. So long story short, we are, we got affected but we did not fall or a layoff. Any employers, we don't plan to either the case, the keeping a balance at this point but still we are actually keeping our eyes open in the sense that if things go more crazier in the U S then we might actually have the top management take like half the salary. And in fact that's addition did not come from me, my top 10 or 20 people in the company. They came to me and told me like that should be actually, we should be looking at. And I told them like we will be, we'll actually be board and make some changes and we will you know, people, the company wants, everything is bad, we'll actually pay off that if money.
Anoop (30:54):
It's not like you're taking away that have the salary for two or three months. Then again, we had this problem where some technology, we did not have enough projects. Like we had some projects which got like completed and deliver. So we were expecting some ongoing work from these customers and they depend on the, those industries are completely shut down currently. So like they can or do anything. Right. So we are like, okay, we will pay more and do something else. So we are actually, we have some good relationship with the law enforcement here. So if you're actually building a free application for the gas encounters Shelley's office here the Sheriff's office, we have built their website and the officers, including the sheriff is a good personal friend of mine. So we reached out to them and told them like, bill build you free iOS and Android app that you can give to all the citizens.
Anoop (31:46):
Right? It's only, it's a simple thing. On one screen on the app it shows like the corporate 19, the state-wise, it pulls data from the CDC and show like how many dads, you know, how many people are infected. That's a state list then, which is updated like regularly, automatically from the CDC. Then the other is where they can actually securely send a broadcast, a message to all the citizens having this app on their iOS and Android. Like anything, like an alert or anything that they need to give a real data to their citizens because there's so many conspiracies and you know, bad information that people share on social network where, especially Facebook and Twitter where that's a reason we have a problem with toilet paper shortage or we have problems with people holding food items or pet food, you know, like we build this thing so that they can communicate securely to all the citizens. We are waiting for the confirmation from the Apple store to accept it because since they're a government entity, we have to go through a lot of process and it has, the app has to be completely verified by the whether developers Apple's there, they the [inaudible] the, the team actually who work on approving apps on the app store. So I, I believe that next week will be like,
Reade (33:11):
So that's that's so cool. That's really noble. A couple of things you mentioned there. I mean, one providing that sort of service for free to your local law enforcement that is now not everybody is willing or able to do that kind of thing. So that's really impressive. And also I love that story that your team and your, your higher management came to you willing to sacrifice part of their salary for the good of the team. I, this has been some of the most impressive stuff I've heard about a company that I've talked to and so I really appreciate you sharing all this. It's, it's impossible for me not to see this. You know, you're leading a business, you're a part of your community, you're living the American dream. And I want you to know, I appreciate it and I appreciate you talking to me today. How can people learn more about you guys and what you're doing maybe for your community and what Comcast is doing? All in all,
Anoop (34:16): I would say the website is a good search. We are trying to do more social media things. It's not being consistent. That's one thing. In 2020 we have to improve a lot, communicate more and
Anoop (34:30):
Okay.
Reade (34:31): Build Anoop (34:32):
And set up a group of people, you know, who will be loyally following what we do. Because we are always being busy with customer projects and things like that. And then social media is one thing we haven't put a lot of effort into. Right. We will do that. Reade (34:47): [Inaudible] That's good. Yeah. Well we'll we'll make sure to put links to your website. And, and folks, if you're watching this at home and you're like, I got to get in touch with a newb, we've got a project for them or I've got a connection for them and you can't find him through that website or if you, if you want to just be put directly in touch, I'm happy to make that connection, if that's all right with you and [inaudible] Anoop (35:07): I appreciate that. And also if any of your subscribers or viewers or the people who follow you on the podcast if, if they are living in a city or a city in the U S where if they know they have good connection with their County Sheriff's office and they want to use this app free of cost, we are happy to offer that asphalt. Like it's something we can do while we're all going through this clobbered 19 situation. Reade (35:36): That's fantastic. I appreciate that and I definitely have a, a recommendation for you as soon as we get off of this live. So I appreciate your time so much and it has been a fantastic interview folks, those of you who are watching listening, I appreciate you joining. If you're watching this live, just comment live down below. If you're watching the replay later on, just just comment, replay, lets me know when people are watching and if you, if you had, if this was helpful for you, if you found something interesting, let me know in the comments and if you just want to make fun of me for my overgrown haircut that I still haven't figured out how to take care of, just drop something in the comments we want to hear from you guys. So thanks so much for watching and we look forward to seeing you on the next growth secrets interview. Thanks.